dag postpentacost

ik probeer de hele tijd al inhoudelijk te reageren. sinds het begin van onze discussie. ik heb veel dingen weerlegt. en ik vond dat ik mn woorden steeds moest herhalen. en ik ga wel degelijk in op je posts. hoe komt het dan dak zulke lange verhalen post als ik volgens jou de discussie alitjd blokkeer met "jij weet niks etc"?dan zou ik toch al lang weg zijn?

de reden waarom ik zeg dat je weing over een specifiek onderwerp weet, is niet om de discussie te blokkeren,maar ik bene r gewoon niet voor als mensen dingen roepen zonder er kennis over te hebben. en ik heb wel degelijk wat kennis van het christendom. van daar dak voorzichtig ben met wat ik roep en zeg.geloofskwesteies liggen nou eenmaal erg gevoelig. wil niemand krenken.maar goed:even een historische update: toen de profeet Muhammed saws terugkeerde naar mekka, heeft hij geen oorlog gevoerd. er waren geen plunderingen en geen aanvallen. als je een authentiek boek leest van zijn leven dan kun je dat er uitgebreider in lezen. welke boeken lees je?en over welke agressieve daad heb je het dan?want jij blijft wel erg algemeen. dus hoe wil je dak er inhoudelijk op reageer?jij zegt dat de profeet saws agressive dingen heeft gedaan, je blijft algemeen.dus wat rest mij om ook algemeen te blijven en zeggen dat hij vredig was. kom met argumenten, dan kom ik ook met argumenten. geef me bronnen want die geef ik ook. aub.

heb je de hele forum over je heen gekregen?dat heb ik niet gezien. ik heb alleen gezien dak in discussie opeens ben geraakt met 4 christenen. dus ik dnek dat ik juist de hele forum over me heen heb gekregen. ik zie hier niet dat een moslims heeft gereageerd hoor. en ik vind nog steeds niet kunnen dat je de profeet met machiavelli vergelijkt. je hebt mijn tekst daarover weer niet weerlegt. ik heb Isa of een ander heilig iemand voor jou ook niet met een politiek/filosofisch iemand vergeleken. zo simplistisch liggen de dingen nou eenmaal niet in godsdiensten.

en jij vind dak ik de ware identiteit van isa ontken. maar zo zie jij het. jij vindt dat hij een bep identiteit heeft. ik kan het anders zien. wat ik probeerde duidelijk te maken, is dat jij het misschien ook raar kan vinden dat jij wel mozes erkent en res[ecteert, maar dat de joden jezus helemaal niet erkennen. wat ik wilde aantonen is puur de stijl van deze discussie. soms moet je uit de discussie stappen om te kijken waar het ook alweer over gaat. dat is alles.

mvg

Islam001
wat wil je daarmee zeggen? Want het klopt helemaal niet.

Moslima, je vroeg om materiaal. ik ben niet zo'n voorstander van laqppen
tekst plakken, maar vooruit:

Deze tegenstelling tussen de twee godsdiensten spitst zich toe op twee
onderwerpen: die van engelen en die van de eerste generatie volgelingen
na de dood van Mohammed en na de dood en opstanding van Jezus.


Soera 8:12 was gekozen als tegenhanger van Lucas 22:36 vanwege de
zwaarden achter de schermen en vanwege de engelen. Soera 8:12 zegt
dat de moslimengelen de moslims hielpen in hun bloedige heilige oorlog.
Waar past een engel in het evangelie van Lucas aan het eind van Jezus�
missie?


Lucas 22:42-44 zegt dat in de Hof van Getsemane een engel neerkwam
om Jezus die in grote angstnood was bij te staan, omdat hij was op het
punt stond de zonden van de gehele wereld op zijn schouders te nemen.
Zijn gebeden waren zo intens dat zijn zweet als druppels bloed op de
grond vielen (Lucas 22:44).


Daarbij komt dat tijdens de gebeurtenissen in de Hof van Getsemane in
het evangelie van Matte�s, waarin Petrus het oor van de bediende van de
hogepriester afsloeg, Jezus Petrus berispte:



Matte�s 26:52 "Steek je zwaard terug op zijn plaats.� Jezus zei tegen
hem, "Want wie naar het zwaard grijpt, zal door het zwaard omkomen. 53
Weet je niet dat ik mijn Vader maar te hulp hoef te roepen en dat hij mij
dan onmiddellijk meer dan twaalf legioenen engelen ter beschikking zou
stellen?� (NBV).



Deze twee verzen stemmen overeen met Lucas� verslag en voegen daar
nog enkele details aan toe. Om de wil van God te doen, wijst Jezus geweld
af - anders dan Petrus zich de wil van God voorstelt. Dan zegt Jezus dat
hij meer dan 72.000 engelen tot zijn beschikking heeft. Dit betekent dat
hij bewust zijn leven geeft en voor de zonden van de hele wereld sterft.
Jezus toont op deze manier aan dat engelen een hoger doel dienen. Zij
zijn niet betrokken bij het afslachten van zondaars of ongelovigen in
bloedige slagen geleid door een zelfbenoemde menselijke boodschapper
(soera 3:144).


Daar tegenover staat dat soera 8:12 zegt dat de moslimengelen -
zeshonderd jaar na Christus - ofwel mensen met zwaarden sloegen ofwel
moslims hielpen mensen in een oorlog af te slachten, om ons een betere
geloofswijze te tonen. In de islamitische theologie, zijn moslimengelen in
staat ongelovigen tijdens oorlogvoering te slachten, hoewel de gegevens
over hun rol in Badr niet overtuigend zijn. In de christelijke theologie daar
tegenover, staan engelen ongelovigen bij deel te krijgen aan de redding
(Hebree�rs 1:14); zij zijn niet bestemd om in djihaads te vechten voor de
zelfbenoemde menselijke boodschapper van Arabi� (soera 3:144).


We noemden ook de eerste generatie volgelingen in het christendom. Het
boek Handelingen, evenals latere verslagen laten zien dat zij het
evangelie verkondigden en de wereld op zijn kop zette zonder het zwaard
te hanteren. Tegen de derde en vierde eeuw was het christendom
verspreidt tot in de verste hoeken van de toen bekende wereld; alleen
door het woord, niet door scherpe wapens. Keizer Constantijn is niet de
grondlegger van het christendom.


Daar staat tegenover dat de eerste generatie moslims hoofdzakelijk het
zwaard hanteerde. Bijvoorbeeld, de stammen die tot de islam bekeerd
waren, of beter gezegd, die zich hadden overgegeven aan Mohammed�s
militaire macht, rebelleerden onmiddellijk nadat Mohammed stierf aan
koorts in 632, want hun gedwongen trouw eindigde met de dood �van de
profeet.� De stammen wilden terugkeren naar hun normale leven. Aboe
Bakr, de opvolger van Mohammed, moest daar echter niets van hebben en
bracht de twee jaar daarop volgend door met het neerslaan van de
opstanden, en met succes. Het is geen wonder dat een zwaard onderdeel
is van de Saoedi-Arabische vlag. En zodra de opstand thuis is
neergeslagen, marcheerden de moslimlegers op naar de omringende
landen om ze te veroveren in naam van de islam.


Het is waar dat de Romeinse keizer Constantijn, de middeleeuwse
kruisvaarders, de protestanten en de katholieken het zwaard tegen
ongelovigen en tegen elkaar hebben gebruikt. Geen van hen is echter de
fundering van het christendom - alleen Jezus is dat; en hij heeft nooit het
zwaard aangeraden om zijn boodschap te verspreiden. Daarbij komt dat
het christendom de Reformatie (circa 1400-1600) heeft ondergaan en
onder druk heeft gestaan van de vredelievende Verlichting (circa 1600
-1800). Afgezien daarvan, Jezus zelf heeft nooit opgeroepen tot een
militaire djihaad, en alleen hij bepaalt de genetische code voor zijn
beweging.


Anderzijds is Mohammed de grondlegger van de islam, en hij is
daadwerkelijk v��r het gebruik van het zwaard; hij hanteert er zelf ��n op
zijn veelvuldige militaire aanvallen en oorlogen. Eeuwenlang werd de
verspreiding van de islam ondersteund door grote moslimlegers. Dat is
geen teken van goddelijke goedkeuring. De wereld zou positiever op de
islam hebben gereageerd als het zich alleen op een vreedzame manier
tijdens het leven van Mohammed en gedurende de eerste eeuwen na zijn
dood had verspreid. Maar dit is niet het geval. De tegenwoordige moslims
volgen dan ook alleen maar hun leider en zijn koran. Zij interpreteren hun
heilige tekst niet verkeerd en passen het niet verkeerd toe, want soera 8:
12 (en veel andere verzen), is duidelijk en ondubbelzinnig: volgens de
historische en literaire contexten kwam een fysiek en scherp zwaard in
werkelijkheid hard neer op de nekken en de vingers van de Mekkanen.


Daarom zijn Jezus en Mohammed in feite volledig verschillend aan elkaar;
zo verschillend als dag en nacht. Mohammed beveelt zijn gelovigen om
ongelovigen met een fysiek zwaard te doden, terwijl Jezus Petrus
opdraagt zijn zwaard weg te doen. Dit leert de huidige christenen dat het
woord van de ware God niet door geweld mag worden verspreid.

tja dit zijn idd lappe teksten waar ik niks aan heb. de helft of meer van deze ahadith zijn zeer zwak. dat het van Bukhari afkomstig is zegt nog niks. en outhmaan en ali zijn idd vermoord maar zegt dat wat over de profeet?juist niet. zij werden door een paar losgeslage personen vermoord. waarom betrek je de tekst van Umar er niet bij?toen hij gestoken werd door een niet-moslim tijdens het bidden en hij lag op zijn sterbed, weet je wat hij toen zei:zorg goed voor de minderheden,zorg goed voor de dhimmi's (niet-moslims in de islamitsche staat)zorg goed voor ze, doe ze geen onrecht. waarom heb je dit er niet bij gedaan?of nee, jij hebt het niet geschreven. een verhaal heeft twee kanten. dat moet jij wel weten niet waar met de christelijke geschiedenis..(inquisities en kruistichten?maar laat ik daar maar geen boekje over open doen.enn aangezien jij hebt gezegd dat je deze tekst geknipt en geplakt:van welke site?en met wat voorachtergronden schrijven deze mensen?laat t me maar weten. en voordat je tabari gaat citeren moet je weten dat een aantal isl geleerden de historie van tabari niet altijd betrouwbaar vinden. als het goed is heb je een vertaling van Frans Rosenthal. die geeft bij de voorwoord aan dat de hsitorie niet altijd klopt. dus ja..ik akn eerlijk gezegd niet veel serieus nemen van deze lap tekst. het spijt me. heb je het misschien van de beroemde site answering-islam?want er is ook een site van answering-christianity en daar staan ook zulke lappe teksten.maar ik vind beide sittes onbetrouwbaar, dus graag bronnen. of heb je het van de forum dutch faith freedom?wat zijn ze daar "aardig" en "objectief"jegens moslims. goh.wel objectieve bronnen gebruiken, he. want zulke sites zijn voor mij lachwekkend. je moet wel erg onzeker zijn (heb het niet over jou)over je geloof om de noodzaak te voelen om zoiets over een andere geloof te zeggen. en een andere geloof te trashen.ik meen dat een handtekening van een gast daar "death to islam"is. hmm..."vredelievend".van waar heb je het gecopieerd en geplakt?van 1 van deze twee sites?zo ja, sorry niet betrouwbaar. net zo min als answering-christianity. wan t dat is weer een site dat argumeneten tegen het hristendom bevat. maar beide zijn voor mij sites die met modder gooien. doe ik niet aan mee. dus kom met terechte bronnen. ik heb de boeken van tabari zelf thuis. en er klopt de helft niet van wat er staat.trust me.je hebt trrouwens niet op mn vraag geantwoord nogmaals:met wat voor doel discussieer jij met mij hierover?ik heb mijn doel al duidelijk gemaakt, wat is die van jou?

gr en tanx voor de lappe teksten,maar ik kan er niks mee om bovnstaande reden

oh by the way, ik ga morgen op vakantie, so i wont be around here anymore. ik ga lekker weg. dus verwacht een tijdje maar geen reactie. veel plezier verder als een andere moslim het van me wil overnemen. tot ik terug kom! en bedankt voor alle teksten! maar ik kijk er wat anders tegen aan, maar bedankt he!ik raad trouwens wel aan om boeken zelf te lezen en niet te knippen en plakken op internet. lees het voorwoord van boeken en kom wat te weten over de schrijvers en hun tijd. lees over hoe en waarom ze iets schreven.das de manier hoe ik in mn college van het christendom het materiaal heb bestudeerd. door die manier ben ik er achter gekomen dat er een heleboel haken en ogen aan zitten. zoals het verhaal van Arius. waar je nog steeds niet op hebt geantwoord.en waarom de kerk perse deze 4 heeft uitgekzen als goddelijk. hoe konden simpele mensen zoeiets beslissen. begrijp je?kijk naar de bronnen voor je iets aan neemt.maar bewaar het maar voor na mn vakantie. of er kan een ander op reageren. maar voorlopig wens ik iedereen een fijne vakantie.

gr

ciao

Moslima,

kweetnie of je nog posts leest; ik heb veel te zeggen over je laatste
reactie, maar dat komt nog wel.

Dank voor de discussie. In ieder geval een fijne vakantie en tot dan...

hgr

In eerste instantie geplaatst door postpentacost Moslima, je vroeg om materiaal. ik ben niet zo'n voorstander van laqppen tekst plakken, maar vooruit: Deze tegenstelling tussen de twee godsdiensten spitst zich toe op twee onderwerpen: die van engelen en die van de eerste generatie volgelingen na de dood van Mohammed en na de dood en opstanding van Jezus. Soera 8:12 was gekozen als tegenhanger van Lucas 22:36 vanwege de zwaarden achter de schermen en vanwege de engelen. Soera 8:12 zegt dat de moslimengelen de moslims hielpen in hun bloedige heilige oorlog. Waar past een engel in het evangelie van Lucas aan het eind van Jezus� missie? Lucas 22:42-44 zegt dat in de Hof van Getsemane een engel neerkwam om Jezus die in grote angstnood was bij te staan, omdat hij was op het punt stond de zonden van de gehele wereld op zijn schouders te nemen. Zijn gebeden waren zo intens dat zijn zweet als druppels bloed op de grond vielen (Lucas 22:44). Daarbij komt dat tijdens de gebeurtenissen in de Hof van Getsemane in het evangelie van Matte�s, waarin Petrus het oor van de bediende van de hogepriester afsloeg, Jezus Petrus berispte: Matte�s 26:52 "Steek je zwaard terug op zijn plaats.� Jezus zei tegen hem, "Want wie naar het zwaard grijpt, zal door het zwaard omkomen. 53 Weet je niet dat ik mijn Vader maar te hulp hoef te roepen en dat hij mij dan onmiddellijk meer dan twaalf legioenen engelen ter beschikking zou stellen?� (NBV). Deze twee verzen stemmen overeen met Lucas� verslag en voegen daar nog enkele details aan toe. Om de wil van God te doen, wijst Jezus geweld af - anders dan Petrus zich de wil van God voorstelt. Dan zegt Jezus dat hij meer dan 72.000 engelen tot zijn beschikking heeft. Dit betekent dat hij bewust zijn leven geeft en voor de zonden van de hele wereld sterft. Jezus toont op deze manier aan dat engelen een hoger doel dienen. Zij zijn niet betrokken bij het afslachten van zondaars of ongelovigen in bloedige slagen geleid door een zelfbenoemde menselijke boodschapper (soera 3:144). Daar tegenover staat dat soera 8:12 zegt dat de moslimengelen - zeshonderd jaar na Christus - ofwel mensen met zwaarden sloegen ofwel moslims hielpen mensen in een oorlog af te slachten, om ons een betere geloofswijze te tonen. In de islamitische theologie, zijn moslimengelen in staat ongelovigen tijdens oorlogvoering te slachten, hoewel de gegevens over hun rol in Badr niet overtuigend zijn. In de christelijke theologie daar tegenover, staan engelen ongelovigen bij deel te krijgen aan de redding (Hebree�rs 1:14); zij zijn niet bestemd om in djihaads te vechten voor de zelfbenoemde menselijke boodschapper van Arabi� (soera 3:144). We noemden ook de eerste generatie volgelingen in het christendom. Het boek Handelingen, evenals latere verslagen laten zien dat zij het evangelie verkondigden en de wereld op zijn kop zette zonder het zwaard te hanteren. Tegen de derde en vierde eeuw was het christendom verspreidt tot in de verste hoeken van de toen bekende wereld; alleen door het woord, niet door scherpe wapens. Keizer Constantijn is niet de grondlegger van het christendom. Daar staat tegenover dat de eerste generatie moslims hoofdzakelijk het zwaard hanteerde. Bijvoorbeeld, de stammen die tot de islam bekeerd waren, of beter gezegd, die zich hadden overgegeven aan Mohammed�s militaire macht, rebelleerden onmiddellijk nadat Mohammed stierf aan koorts in 632, want hun gedwongen trouw eindigde met de dood �van de profeet.� De stammen wilden terugkeren naar hun normale leven. Aboe Bakr, de opvolger van Mohammed, moest daar echter niets van hebben en bracht de twee jaar daarop volgend door met het neerslaan van de opstanden, en met succes. Het is geen wonder dat een zwaard onderdeel is van de Saoedi-Arabische vlag. En zodra de opstand thuis is neergeslagen, marcheerden de moslimlegers op naar de omringende landen om ze te veroveren in naam van de islam. Het is waar dat de Romeinse keizer Constantijn, de middeleeuwse kruisvaarders, de protestanten en de katholieken het zwaard tegen ongelovigen en tegen elkaar hebben gebruikt. Geen van hen is echter de fundering van het christendom - alleen Jezus is dat; en hij heeft nooit het zwaard aangeraden om zijn boodschap te verspreiden. Daarbij komt dat het christendom de Reformatie (circa 1400-1600) heeft ondergaan en onder druk heeft gestaan van de vredelievende Verlichting (circa 1600 -1800). Afgezien daarvan, Jezus zelf heeft nooit opgeroepen tot een militaire djihaad, en alleen hij bepaalt de genetische code voor zijn beweging. Anderzijds is Mohammed de grondlegger van de islam, en hij is daadwerkelijk v��r het gebruik van het zwaard; hij hanteert er zelf ��n op zijn veelvuldige militaire aanvallen en oorlogen. Eeuwenlang werd de verspreiding van de islam ondersteund door grote moslimlegers. Dat is geen teken van goddelijke goedkeuring. De wereld zou positiever op de islam hebben gereageerd als het zich alleen op een vreedzame manier tijdens het leven van Mohammed en gedurende de eerste eeuwen na zijn dood had verspreid. Maar dit is niet het geval. De tegenwoordige moslims volgen dan ook alleen maar hun leider en zijn koran. Zij interpreteren hun heilige tekst niet verkeerd en passen het niet verkeerd toe, want soera 8: 12 (en veel andere verzen), is duidelijk en ondubbelzinnig: volgens de historische en literaire contexten kwam een fysiek en scherp zwaard in werkelijkheid hard neer op de nekken en de vingers van de Mekkanen. Daarom zijn Jezus en Mohammed in feite volledig verschillend aan elkaar; zo verschillend als dag en nacht. Mohammed beveelt zijn gelovigen om ongelovigen met een fysiek zwaard te doden, terwijl Jezus Petrus opdraagt zijn zwaard weg te doen. Dit leert de huidige christenen dat het woord van de ware God niet door geweld mag worden verspreid.

 

Klinkt mischien mooi in de oren maar d at is niet de werkelijkheid, de waarheid. Want de waarheid is:

Let us begin:

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 2

32-37

And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

 

So Moses and his army killed women and children. Moses broke the 6th commmandment, thou shall not kill ANYONE. Or I see, when its in war it okay? Yet when Muslims say the 6th commandment is followed, but in war its different, Christians say nooooo. Either way, The Quran does not say kill women and children, I CHALLENGE ANY CHRISTIAN TO BRING THE VERSE RIGHT NOW. We see it in your Bible, one of your greatest prophets killing women and children by God's permission, meaning Jesus allowed it! So hence Jesus was responsible for killing women and children, and so was Moses so according to the Christians own argument, Moses cannot be a prophet since he killed. Note Moses and his army did this to many cities, verse 37 says there was not one city which was strong enough in the plural sense, hence up to 6 or 7 cities were destroyed with its women and children? What is the Christian response?

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 3

1-7

1 Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. 2 And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. 3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. 4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many. 6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. 7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves

 

Notice the killing spree, scores of cities were raided by Moses and his army by the permission of JESUS, and they killed women and children! What does the Christian have to say to this?

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 7

1-6

1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgash*tes, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth

 

So note, Jesus allows Moses to completly destroy cities and show NO MERCY, NO MERCY AT ALL meaning you can do whatever you want to them. Not only that, Jesus orders Moses and his army to destroy all their images and their places of worship, so much for religous tolerance among Christians. So once again we see Moses killing with NO MERCY as God Jesus ordered, we also see no tolerance of other religions, somethings which Christians rant about Islam! This proves which religion is the in-tolerant one, it is the Christian, their God is in-tolerant to other religions as you see.

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 13

6-18

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

 

Once again we the tolerance of the Christian God Jesus. In these passages God says that anyone who worships others Gods wherever they be must be killed. Even if your antartica and you worship some pagan deity you shall be put to death. As the verse says, to the ends of the world, meaning all over the world, so there is no tolerance in the religion. God Jesus orders his followers to stone the ones who dont believe in him, and to kill them, and to destroy the city with the sword and burn it and never rebuild it. The ending ot the paragraph is very interesting, God tells his followers TO KEEP all his commandments which include this one! To kill others who dont believe in him, so hence no religous tolerance. So this rule STILL APPLIES TODAY, because their God said:

 

keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

 

Or did God change his mind? The God of the OT does NOT change his mind:

 

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" Numbers 23:19

He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." 1 Samuel 15:29

 

So hence the Christian God doesnt change his mind so this rule still applies today, so Christians are still ordered to kill us!

 

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 21

18-22

 

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. 22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree

 

I wonder what Christians have to say about that? So as you can see, a bad kid is stoned, and bad men are hanged on trees for all to see. I would really love to see what Christians have to say to these verses. Remember the God the Christians believe in is the same God of the OT, so hence this is Jesus making these commands. So Jesus commanded people to kill their bad kids, to kill bad people and hang them on a tree.

 

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 22

25-29

 

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

 

So as you can see, rape is allowed in certain cases. When the victim is a virgin, she must marry the rapist, if the victim is not a virgin then the rapist is put to death. This law is a shame and insult to rape victims, you bring me one single lady who would want to marry her rapist, and if Christians even try to defend this then they are even more sick and their own book which says it is okay. So hence you now see that the Christian God Jesus allowed rape in certain cases, this is why America seperated Church and state, because Christian laws are sick as you can see.

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 23

1-4

1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. 2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. 3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: 4 Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee

 

Now why cant these people go into the congregation of the lord? What happened to the God who hears all, and accepts all? It seems at one time Jesus did not like bastards, and did not like men without their private parts! I wonder what the Christian has to say to this. Why cannot Ammonites and Moabites go into the congregation of the lord? What again happened to the God who loves all and hears all? It seems that the Christian God Jesus is not very loving after all and that Christians have been spreading a myth about their God. Anyway, can we really accept such rubbish like this?

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 25

1-3

 

1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. 2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. 3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee

 

Now I can understand that punishments like this can be carried on, the reason I post this is because CHRISTIANS do not accept things like this. When they read in the Quran that it says lash the ones who commit illegal sexual intercourse, the Christians start ranting how can you do such a thing! Thats so evil!!!!!! So I am just using their own argument against them, so as we see, the punishment of beating a sinner is in their own book. Hence based on their own arguments and own criteria, their book and God is not peaceful and is evil, and who is this God? It is Jesus.

 

Deuteronomy
Chapter 28

15-68

 

15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And thy carcass shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. 30 Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof. 31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them. 32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine hand. 33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labors, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: 34 So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 35 The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. 36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. 37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee. 38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for the locust shall consume it. 39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit. 41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity. 42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume. 43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low. 44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: 46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever. 47 Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; 48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. 49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; 50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor show favor to the young: 51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee. 52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. 53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: 54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave: 55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter, 57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates. 58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; 59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. 60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. 61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. 63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. 64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. 65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: 66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life: 67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

 

Now the reason I post this is because Christians namely Craig Winn claim Islam is not peaceful because Allah Warns of punishing people who dont follow him etc. Now since Christians believe that, then using their own criteria and own arguments then the verses I just posted show that it is infact their God who is violent and non peaceful because as you can see he will punish those who dont follow them in a very harsh manner. So Christians should not throw stones if they live in a glass house, and they do live in a glass house. I wonder what Craig Winn will have to see about these verses, I mean he does believe in this God who is warning of these punishments, if Christians have a problem with Allah punishing people then why dont they have a problem with their own God when he says he will punish people? So hence Christians must now admit their God is violent and not peaceful since they say Allah cant be God because of his wrath and punishments, if Christians do not admit it then they can no longer argue against Islam, if they continue to use this silly argument on Islam then they must leave their own religion. So they are in a bad dilema now, attack Islam and leave Christianity or dont attack Islam and therefore have nuthing much to attack Islam on. ;)

 

Now let me make it easier for the reader, I will basically post what the Christian God will do as a punishment to those who wouldnt follow him:

 

1- God will cause his people to murdered and massacared, and they will flee in all directions.

 

2- People will beget children but will not be able to enjoy them because they will be sent into slavery.

 

3- People's children shall be given to other people and the parents will wish they could have them back but they wont.

 

4- cannabilism, yes cannabilism!  53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee

 

5- God will send diseases to the people

 

6- You will get married, and your wife will sleep with other men.

 

These are some of the punishments that the God of the Bible will do to his people if they dont follow him.

 

Numbers
Chapter 31

7-12

 

 

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. 8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. 9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. 10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. 11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. 12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

I wonder what Christians have to say about this? Using their own criteria against them this makes their God a false violent God. So once again Christians should not throw stones if they live in a glass house.

 

17-18

 

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves

 

What do Christians have to say to this? This is their God commanding Moses to kill the women and CHILDREN and to keep the virgins alive.

 

Joshua
Chapter 2

8-21

 

8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof; 9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have showed you kindness, that ye will also show kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token: 13 And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. 14 And the men answered her, Our life for yours, if ye utter not this our business. And it shall be, when the LORD hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee. 15 Then she let them down by a cord through the window: for her house was upon the town wall, and she dwelt upon the wall. 16 And she said unto them, Get you to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you; and hide yourselves there three days, until the pursuers be returned: and afterward may ye go your way. 17 And the men said unto her, We will be blameless of this thine oath which thou hast made us swear. 18 Behold, when we come into the land, thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread in the window which thou didst let us down by: and thou shalt bring thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all thy father's household, home unto thee. 19 And it shall be, that whosoever shall go out of the doors of thy house into the street, his blood shall be upon his head, and we will be guiltless: and whosoever shall be with thee in the house, his blood shall be on our head, if any hand be upon him. 20 And if thou utter this our business, then we will be quit of thine oath which thou hast made us to swear. 21 And she said, According unto your words, so be it. And she sent them away, and they departed: and she bound the scarlet line in the window.

Now several things to note, notice how the people are so scared of Joshua's people. They are all filled with terror because of the acts commited by Moses and Joshua under God's commands. Now what do Christians have to say about this? Look how their God installed terror into the hearts of everyone, women and children, and these people had no hope of survival! Even if they were kids and women who did not do anything. This is enough evidence of the terror that was going around under God's command.

 

Joshua
Chapter 6

17-27

 

17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. 18 And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it. 19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD. 20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. 22 But Joshua had said unto the two men that had spied out the country, Go into the harlot's house, and bring out thence the woman, and all that she hath, as ye sware unto her. 23 And the young men that were spies went in, and brought out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all that she had; and they brought out all her kindred, and left them without the camp of Israel. 24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD. 25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho. 26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the LORD, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it. 27 So the LORD was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.

 

So Joshua and his army storm a city, they kill everyone as usual accept the harlot and her familly. Is this not terror?

 

Joshua
Chapter 8

1-29

 

1 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear not, neither be thou dismayed: take all the people of war with thee, and arise, go up to Ai: see, I have given into thy hand the king of Ai, and his people, and his city, and his land: 2 And thou shalt do to Ai and her king as thou didst unto Jericho and her king: only the spoil thereof, and the cattle thereof, shall ye take for a prey unto yourselves: lay thee an ambush for the city behind it.

3 So Joshua arose, and all the people of war, to go up against Ai: and Joshua chose out thirty thousand mighty men of valor, and sent them away by night. 4 And he commanded them, saying, Behold, ye shall lie in wait against the city, even behind the city: go not very far from the city, but be ye all ready: 5 And I, and all the people that are with me, will approach unto the city: and it shall come to pass, when they come out against us, as at the first, that we will flee before them, 6 (For they will come out after us) till we have drawn them from the city; for they will say, They flee before us, as at the first: therefore we will flee before them. 7 Then ye shall rise up from the ambush, and seize upon the city: for the LORD your God will deliver it into your hand. 8 And it shall be, when ye have taken the city, that ye shall set the city on fire: according to the commandment of the LORD shall ye do. See, I have commanded you. 9 Joshua therefore sent them forth: and they went to lie in ambush, and abode between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of Ai: but Joshua lodged that night among the people. 10 And Joshua rose up early in the morning, and numbered the people, and went up, he and the elders of Israel, before the people to Ai. 11 And all the people, even the people of war that were with him, went up, and drew nigh, and came before the city, and pitched on the north side of Ai: now there was a valley between them and Ai. 12 And he took about five thousand men, and set them to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. 13 And when they had set the people, even all the host that was on the north of the city, and their liers in wait on the west of the city, Joshua went that night into the midst of the valley. 14 And it came to pass, when the king of Ai saw it, that they hasted and rose up early, and the men of the city went out against Israel to battle, he and all his people, at a time appointed, before the plain; but he wist not that there were liers in ambush against him behind the city. 15 And Joshua and all Israel made as if they were beaten before them, and fled by the way of the wilderness. 16 And all the people that were in Ai were called together to pursue after them: and they pursued after Joshua, and were drawn away from the city. 17 And there was not a man left in Ai or Bethel, that went not out after Israel: and they left the city open, and pursued after Israel. 18 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Stretch out the spear that is in thy hand toward Ai; for I will give it into thine hand. And Joshua stretched out the spear that he had in his hand toward the city. 19 And the ambush arose quickly out of their place, and they ran as soon as he had stretched out his hand: and they entered into the city, and took it, and hasted and set the city on fire. 20 And when the men of Ai looked behind them, they saw, and, behold, the smoke of the city ascended up to heaven, and they had no power to flee this way or that way: and the people that fled to the wilderness turned back upon the pursuers. 21 And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city, and that the smoke of the city ascended, then they turned again, and slew the men of Ai. 22 And the other issued out of the city against them; so they were in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that side: and they smote them, so that they let none of them remain or escape.

23 And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua. 24 And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword. 25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai. 26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. 27 Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which he commanded Joshua. 28 And Joshua burnt Ai, and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day. 29 And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until eventide: and as soon as the sun was down, Joshua commanded that they should take his carcass down from the tree, and cast it at the entering of the gate of the city, and raise thereon a great heap of stones, that remaineth unto this day.

Another battle, another massacare of women and children.

 

Joshua
Chapter 10

28-43

 

28 And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho. 29 Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30 And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho. 31 And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32 And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah. 33 Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining. 34 And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him; and they encamped against it, and fought against it: 35 And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Lachish. 36 And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron; and they fought against it: 37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein. 38 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it: 39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king. 40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. 41 And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon. 42 And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time, because the LORD God of Israel fought for Israel. 43 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.

 

Same old story, more massacraes, leaving NO SOULS ALIVE. I wonder what Christians have to say to this? They cannot say anything, they believe this happened, and they believe in this God who they claim to be Jesus.

 

Judges 1:21-35

 

The tribe of Benjamin, however, failed to drive out the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem. So to this day the Jebusites live in Jerusalem among the people of Benjamin. The descendants of Joseph attacked the town of Bethel, and the LORD was with them. They sent spies to Bethel (formerly known as Luz), who confronted a man coming out of the city. They said to him, "Show us a way into the city, and we will have mercy on you." So he showed them a way in, and they killed everyone in the city except for this man and his family. Later the man moved to the land of the Hittites, where he built a city. He named the city Luz, and it is known by that name to this day. The tribe of Manasseh failed to drive out the people living in Beth-shan, Taanach, Dor, Ibleam, Megiddo, and their surrounding villages, because the Canaanites were determined to stay in that region.

When the Israelites grew stronger, they forced the Canaanites to work as slaves, but they never did drive them out of the land. The tribe of Ephraim also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, and so the Canaanites continued to live there among them. The tribe of Zebulun also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron and Nahalol, who continued to live among them. But they forced them to work as slaves. The tribe of Asher also failed to drive out the residents of Acco, Sidon, Ahlab, Aczib, Helbah, Aphik, and Rehob. In fact, because they did not drive them out, the Canaanites dominated the land where the people of Asher lived. The tribe of Naphtali also failed to drive out the residents of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath. Instead, the Canaanites dominated the land where they lived. Nevertheless, the people of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath were sometimes forced to work as slaves for the people of Naphtali. As for the tribe of Dan, the Amorites forced them into the hill country and would not let them come down into the plains. The Amorites were determined to stay in Mount Heres, Aijalon, and Shaalbim, but when the descendants of Joseph became stronger, they forced the Amorites to work as slaves.

 

Not much to be said, verses explain themselves.

 

Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist

Not much to be added, verses explain themselves.

 

Leviticus 21:9

 

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.

 

hmmmmmmm

 

1Samuel 6:19-20

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?

 

Wonder what Christians say to this. Isnt Jesus Jehovah? I thought Jesus never killed.

 

1 Kings 20:35-36

 

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.

 

What?!

 

 

Ezekiel 9:5-7

 

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all � old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

 

Another massacare.

 

Jeremiah 51:20-26

 

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD.

Another massacre, same old story.

 

Isaiah 13:15-18

 

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

 

It seem it gets from bad to worse!

 

 

1 Kings 13:1-2

 

At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you."

 

Very sick indeed.

 

 

Leviticus 25:44-46

 

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

 

This is how Christians made it okay for slavery, theyre Bible allows it, so why shouldnt they do it? They are just doing what theyre book allows them to do.

 

 

Exodus 21:7-11

 

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

 

This is a sex slave. If she doesnt please the master? How is she supposed to please him? Now you know why the sex trade is so popular in Europe and Christian countries, because their book allows it! They are merely doing what their book allows.

 

 

Exodus 21:20-21

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property

De lijst die jij erbij hield. Hebben de israelische profeten allemaal ook meegemaakt. Dus je vergelijking is zwak. Kijk hier maar eens naar:

"The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."

But he said to me, "I have told you, "Leave the blind alone!". And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."

And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was filled with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them,and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed."

(Fragments of the Apocalypse of Peter:  http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/apoc/fgapcpt .htm)

( http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/apocalypse.h tm)

(www.answering-christianity.com/early_christians.htm)

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/nt_confirms_apocalypse_of_peter.htm)

Dit is de waarheid over Isa(as) en niet de kinder verhalen die jij vertelt.

Muslima 5 schreef

tja dit zijn idd lappe teksten waar ik niks aan heb. de helft of meer van deze ahadith zijn zeer zwak. dat het van Bukhari afkomstig is zegt nog niks.

eindelijk een muslima die door heeft dat hadith een onzuivere mengeling zijn van waarheid en evil.

het was beter dat muslims eens openlijk afstand deden van de hadit wegens zijn onbetrouwbaarheid, in plaats van het te gebruiken als het hun uitkomt, en het zwak te noemen als het effe tegen zit.

Hetzelfde voor de manier waarop muslims omgaan met de bijbel:

- De ene dag is het gemanipuleerd en niets waard

- De dag daarop neemt men verzen ter hand om zaken te bewijzen.

Maar goed: Bovenal geldt dat een flink deel van het muslim geloof gebaseerd is op hadith, het is gebaseerd is op drijfzand, en niet op een rots sterk fundament.

ik ben het dus eens met muslims:

tja dit zijn idd lappe teksten waar ik niks aan heb. de helft of meer van deze ahadith zijn zeer zwak. dat het van Bukhari afkomstig is zegt nog niks.

Mijn conclusie: postpentacots haalde probleemgevallen in de hadith aan....en muslima erkent dat de hadith een probleemgeval is, zelfs inclusief Bukhari

Groeten Sunny

Als ik me niet vergis diende de moslims zich te houden aan de Koran en de Koran alleen.Er mocht niets worden toegevoegd aan de texten,dus ook geen geschiedenis van wie dan ook.Maar het is gebeurd en daarmee heeft ook de moslim zijn noodlot over zich heen gehaald.Het is in princiepe hetzelfde als dat priesters hebben zitten knoeien aan de bijbel. 

In eerste instantie geplaatst door Sunni_Side_Up Ruud....wat denk je van de constatering dat muslims ellende over zich gehaald hebben door koran toe te voegen aan het boek van revelations. Een boek gedicteerd door gods engel, en eindigend met de waarschuwing er niets meer aan toe te voegen.....700 jaar later gebeurde dat toch maar hoe dan ook: iedereen lijkt het zover eens: hadith is zo zuiver als rioolwater....het is water, maar als je het drinkt wordt je vergiftigd

Waarom hebben de christenen en Joden het moslim volk verstoten,toen het zich bij hun aan wilde sluiten....  Wie riep er hier toen als eerste wat over zich af?Steek de hand maar vast in eigen boezem... Wie onderdrukt er nu wie het hardst?

Dat krijg je als je mensen buitensluit en niet naar Gods woorden luisterd,maar het alleen maar uitkraamt...

In eerste instantie geplaatst door Sunni_Side_Up soms is er geen basis voor aansluiting...soms veroorzaken mensen hun eigen verstoting omdat hun intentie niet zuiver is dat de uitkomst niet zuiver is was toen al voelbaar....maar nu bewijsbaar soms begint het met wartaal van een man die door demonisch aandoende angst overvallen worden in een donkere grot soms eindigt het dan met uitspraken als  neem ze niet als vrienden...jesus is niet gestorven aan het kruis en opgestaan...mohammed is groter....de joden zijn zondaars die nergens voor deugen....smyte their necks...onderdruk ze tot ze zich overgeven of geld afdragen.....de koran is allerheiligst....de bijbel is een leugen....elimineer israel.....etc etc etc. dus: soms is er geen basis voor aansluiting...soms veroorzaken mensen hun eigen verstoting omdat hun intentie niet zuiver is

Waarom zou Mohammed demonische texten hebben gehoord?Waar blijkt dat uit?En op welke basis was deze vereniging van volkeren en geloof niet haalbaar?Wat konden de Christenen en Joden aantonen toen Mohammed om het bewijs vroeg,dat christenen en joden de eenigste mensen waren die de hemel binnen zouden gaan?

waar dat uit blijkt:

als god verschijnt gebeurd het volgende vrijwel standaard: mensen vallen op de grond....en als er angst zijn Gods eerste woorden ....VREEST NIET.....IK BEN DE GOD VAN ABRAHAM ISAAK EN JACOB

dus vergelijk dit eens met wat er met mohammed gebeurde in de grot:

1 neervallen........niet wegrennen

2 het wegnemen van angst door God.......niet het nalaten van geruststelling

3 het identificeren van zichzelf.....god laat niemand zomaar wegrennen zonder te spreken.....god is in control....en geeft de boodschap die hij plande te geven...en begint met te zeggen dat het ZIJN boodschap is en niet ZOMAAR IEMANDS BOODSCHAP

mohammed rende naar huis, en vroeg zijn 'pagan vrouw'' wat ''het'' geweest zou kunnen zijn

mijn antwoord: het kan vanalles geweest zijn....maar het patroon lijkt NIET op het patroon dat god gevolgd vast heeft bij de joodse profeten

trouwens even terug naar het eerdere onderwerp:

zijn er nog muslims die iets willen toevoegen aan wat muslima en mijzelf zeiden over de waarde van hadith?

 

 

Uit een muslim boek: ''Uit het leven van de profeet''...

ter onderbouwing van voorgaande

Natuurlijk was de boodschapper van Allah geschokt door de ervaring.
Hij had niet geweten wat er gebeurde, en hij had nog nooit gehoord dat zoiets eerder was gebeurd.
Hij was RRG BANG en keerde bibberend naar zijn huis terug.
"Wikkel me in! Wikkel me in!, IK BEN BANG VOOR MIJZELF!" Zei hij.

Zijn vrouw ging elders raad vragen over dit angstaanjagende voorval

http://www.redouan.nl/leven_van_profeet.htm

 

In eerste instantie geplaatst door Sunni_Side_Up Uit een muslim boek: ''Uit het leven van de profeet''... ter onderbouwing van voorgaande Natuurlijk was de boodschapper van Allah geschokt door de ervaring. Hij had niet geweten wat er gebeurde, en hij had nog nooit gehoord dat zoiets eerder was gebeurd. Hij was RRG BANG en keerde bibberend naar zijn huis terug. "Wikkel me in! Wikkel me in!, IK BEN BANG VOOR MIJZELF!" Zei hij. Zijn vrouw ging elders raad vragen over dit angstaanjagende voorval http://www.redouan.nl/leven_van_profeet.htm

Het eerste waar ik aan denk,als ik een brandende struik hoor praten is een psychiater...Je kan dat een mens niet kwalijk nemen.Mozes had angst en zo ook Mohammed... Ik lees echter nergens dat Jezus deze angst had.

plz

als ik iets vraag over mohammed....ga niet over andere profeten praten

als ik vraag over koran....ga niet over bijbel praten

als ik iets vraag over martelingen door mohammed....ga niet over amerikanen praten.....amerikanen zijn niet de profeten die een wereldgodsdients leiden

plz ben to the point....overtuigend....en raak de kern

you got the picture ;)